Thought the same--that at least some watchers would immediately think, "Geez, if she can bait him this easily now, what are Putin, Xi, Maduro and gang doing?"
I suggest the couple in rural Pennsylvania do some research into the policies of each candidate. The debate was just
90 minutes with tfg blathering on about immigrants eating pets and the billions and billions of whatever.
Harris dragged him through the mud, she may have "baited" him and obviously succeeded but he wouldn't know a hook if it smashed him in the face and pulled his nose off.
Did this couple really expect to get detailed information in a 90 minute shit show ? Really...? If they're so uniformed or uncertain (or too lazy) to get their information from sources other than nyt headlines, faux news or TV blurbs while expecting detailed policy explanations, I don't have any empathy for them. I'm a 70 year young single woman struggling just like every other elder. But when it comes down to a choice between fascism and democracy, I know where I stand. What do these people want ?
If they really expected to get all the information they wanted in 90 minutes, well they got everything from tffg - chaos, concentration camps, bloody stories, manipulation, a self serving narcissistic wanna be dictator with nothing to offer except a continuing downward slide into autocracy, fascism and the end of our democracy and constitution.
These people need to get off their asses and do the right thing- ask questions, do some research in Harris' policies and qualifications.
It's all there, right under their noses. They just need to look.
If those people even exist. NYT has been shamelessly manipulating facts to favor the republicans, and sane-washing tRump. I don’t believe anything they say anymore, similarly CNN.
I agree. I have no idea why writers, pundits, or anyone else is still listening to the NYT. The NYT has zero interest in preserving democracy, and their “sane washing” of TCFelon and biased polls and so-called undecided focus groups are just pure bs.
I really don’t believe their are undecided voters. These people are likely trump voters embarrassed to admit they will vote for him or attention seekers. This election is extremely obvious: It’s democracy with Harris or fascism with tRump.
If someone hasn’t been able to figure that out over the past almost decade then maybe they should just stay home.
I’m seeing bogus polls and the sane-washing of trump. The NYT can’t seem to help themselves from behaving as if this is a horse race or basketball game instead of reporting on what’s really at stake for the country if trump is installed for a second term.
Bogus? Aren't their polls the same as what other polls show? And as far as "what’s really at stake for the country", this is the domain of the editorials. NYT's editorials are a Trump-bashing fest. What don't you like?
My favorite moment was when one of the moderators asked a candidate about climate change, adding that the candidate had 60 seconds to answer.
I’ve written a lot about advertising, even committed a bit of it. I know some stuff about what can be expressed in 60 or 30 seconds. Not much more than striking an attitude.
Can we please quit the BS about a lack of specificity? Harris endorsed the Senate immigration bill, already negotiated and even translated into legislative language. The nearly 1,000-page Project 2025 was written by the GOP operatives likely to draft the legislation that would manifest those initiatives.
Our country is hopeless and lost and frightening stupid. I see no future for us—I really do not. If two 77 year old retired teachers have watched the last 9 years of Trump and his cruel, corrupt, vile and insane behavior, and his total lack of any empathy and is still talking about “inflation” and the “economy “ and their “fixed income,” I have no confidence we are going to have a country we will recognize soon. I would vote for a ham sandwich before Trump and any person with any discernment or wisdom at all would do the same. What is wrong with us?
The older generation of mostly boomers (not all!) have been lost to the extreme propaganda of Faux news. I hate how the right-wing media has destroyed these people’s minds. Seems like an awful way to spend your last days on earth in this manner.
1. Notice the use of the word ‘costly’ to describe each candidate’s plans; that’s classic NYT editorial, slipped into a straight news story. The couple didn’t call them costly, the New York Times did. And is cost of the programs really the deciding factor for this couple? The NYT doesn’t tell us. Subliminal centrism, the NYT’s bread and butter.
2. Notice the paragraph synthesizing what the couple said about the debate. *No direct quotes* are used except “it was all so disappointing” which could have been referring to anything, from the general tenor of the debate to the leading questions the NYT was asking them in that moment.
3. “They said they didn’t hear any detailed answers on immigration or foreign policy, either.” Okay! Did they say anything else about that? No one heard any detailed answers in that debate, it wasn’t just them. Notice also how they supposedly ask how the programs would help *a couple like them.* The NYT takes their alleged concern and turns it into a generalization that fits neatly with their old, tired centrist playbook.
If this couple were truly scared for their future and living on a fixed income that doesn’t cover their cost of living, the NYT wouldn’t go anywhere near them. Either they have money or they don’t exist.
Never trust the NYT, especially during a general election year.
"but the fact that he chose to appear in the spin room" Trump would have appeared anyway. This is the admirable part. The less admirable? He can suddenly, without warning, become a total idiot.
Fascinating read. The West Wing was one of the best shows to ever grace the small screen. I especially liked your own Sorkin moment and the realization that you likely didn’t sway the people who came with preconceived ideas. Much has been written on the difficulty of changing minds, but it generally seems to happen at the individual level, and only if people are open and willing to change. Great stuff. Thank you!
Thought the same--that at least some watchers would immediately think, "Geez, if she can bait him this easily now, what are Putin, Xi, Maduro and gang doing?"
I suggest the couple in rural Pennsylvania do some research into the policies of each candidate. The debate was just
90 minutes with tfg blathering on about immigrants eating pets and the billions and billions of whatever.
Harris dragged him through the mud, she may have "baited" him and obviously succeeded but he wouldn't know a hook if it smashed him in the face and pulled his nose off.
Did this couple really expect to get detailed information in a 90 minute shit show ? Really...? If they're so uniformed or uncertain (or too lazy) to get their information from sources other than nyt headlines, faux news or TV blurbs while expecting detailed policy explanations, I don't have any empathy for them. I'm a 70 year young single woman struggling just like every other elder. But when it comes down to a choice between fascism and democracy, I know where I stand. What do these people want ?
If they really expected to get all the information they wanted in 90 minutes, well they got everything from tffg - chaos, concentration camps, bloody stories, manipulation, a self serving narcissistic wanna be dictator with nothing to offer except a continuing downward slide into autocracy, fascism and the end of our democracy and constitution.
These people need to get off their asses and do the right thing- ask questions, do some research in Harris' policies and qualifications.
It's all there, right under their noses. They just need to look.
If those people even exist. NYT has been shamelessly manipulating facts to favor the republicans, and sane-washing tRump. I don’t believe anything they say anymore, similarly CNN.
I agree. I have no idea why writers, pundits, or anyone else is still listening to the NYT. The NYT has zero interest in preserving democracy, and their “sane washing” of TCFelon and biased polls and so-called undecided focus groups are just pure bs.
I really don’t believe their are undecided voters. These people are likely trump voters embarrassed to admit they will vote for him or attention seekers. This election is extremely obvious: It’s democracy with Harris or fascism with tRump.
If someone hasn’t been able to figure that out over the past almost decade then maybe they should just stay home.
Interesting points, but please, stop believing NYT. It has become a right wing propaganda rag.
They will endorse Harris. All their editorials are relentlessly, even viciously anti-Trump. What are you seeing?
I’m seeing bogus polls and the sane-washing of trump. The NYT can’t seem to help themselves from behaving as if this is a horse race or basketball game instead of reporting on what’s really at stake for the country if trump is installed for a second term.
Bogus? Aren't their polls the same as what other polls show? And as far as "what’s really at stake for the country", this is the domain of the editorials. NYT's editorials are a Trump-bashing fest. What don't you like?
My favorite moment was when one of the moderators asked a candidate about climate change, adding that the candidate had 60 seconds to answer.
I’ve written a lot about advertising, even committed a bit of it. I know some stuff about what can be expressed in 60 or 30 seconds. Not much more than striking an attitude.
Can we please quit the BS about a lack of specificity? Harris endorsed the Senate immigration bill, already negotiated and even translated into legislative language. The nearly 1,000-page Project 2025 was written by the GOP operatives likely to draft the legislation that would manifest those initiatives.
Our country is hopeless and lost and frightening stupid. I see no future for us—I really do not. If two 77 year old retired teachers have watched the last 9 years of Trump and his cruel, corrupt, vile and insane behavior, and his total lack of any empathy and is still talking about “inflation” and the “economy “ and their “fixed income,” I have no confidence we are going to have a country we will recognize soon. I would vote for a ham sandwich before Trump and any person with any discernment or wisdom at all would do the same. What is wrong with us?
The older generation of mostly boomers (not all!) have been lost to the extreme propaganda of Faux news. I hate how the right-wing media has destroyed these people’s minds. Seems like an awful way to spend your last days on earth in this manner.
That NYT blurb is such bullsh*t!!!
1. Notice the use of the word ‘costly’ to describe each candidate’s plans; that’s classic NYT editorial, slipped into a straight news story. The couple didn’t call them costly, the New York Times did. And is cost of the programs really the deciding factor for this couple? The NYT doesn’t tell us. Subliminal centrism, the NYT’s bread and butter.
2. Notice the paragraph synthesizing what the couple said about the debate. *No direct quotes* are used except “it was all so disappointing” which could have been referring to anything, from the general tenor of the debate to the leading questions the NYT was asking them in that moment.
3. “They said they didn’t hear any detailed answers on immigration or foreign policy, either.” Okay! Did they say anything else about that? No one heard any detailed answers in that debate, it wasn’t just them. Notice also how they supposedly ask how the programs would help *a couple like them.* The NYT takes their alleged concern and turns it into a generalization that fits neatly with their old, tired centrist playbook.
If this couple were truly scared for their future and living on a fixed income that doesn’t cover their cost of living, the NYT wouldn’t go anywhere near them. Either they have money or they don’t exist.
Never trust the NYT, especially during a general election year.
Solid analysis as always, Professor Drezner. I just want to note that the NYT's "undecideds" haven't always proven to be that.
"but the fact that he chose to appear in the spin room" Trump would have appeared anyway. This is the admirable part. The less admirable? He can suddenly, without warning, become a total idiot.
Fascinating read. The West Wing was one of the best shows to ever grace the small screen. I especially liked your own Sorkin moment and the realization that you likely didn’t sway the people who came with preconceived ideas. Much has been written on the difficulty of changing minds, but it generally seems to happen at the individual level, and only if people are open and willing to change. Great stuff. Thank you!